[00:00:02] Speaker A: The Michael Hatfield re Max team presents real estate and more.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Bay Area real estate is different than in all of America. And why? What's up with homebuyers? What's on sellers minds? How is the market and much, much more.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: Now here's your host, Michael Hatfield. Well, welcome to the real estate and more show. And I'm so happy you're here with us today.
You know, we did a couple weeks ago an episode on how to become a pilot, and the reaction to that was pretty startling. I must be a lot of pilots listening to us or a lot of people that are interested in becoming a pilot. And having spent several decades in the profession, which I consider to be the greatest job on earth, I thought we'd just share a little bit more. And today I have my wonderful partner and my co pilot in life, Nancy, here to again, ask a few of those questions. Nance, hi. Welcome back.
[00:01:01] Speaker C: Hi, Michael. Thanks for having me. It's always good. So, Michael, let's start with the first question. You chose early, that you wanted to become an airline pilot as opposed to a corporate pilot or private or personal pilot. Yeah, exactly. So can you say a few things about that?
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Well, I can say a lot about that because to become an airline pilot, you're going to have to have some type of a background, whether or not it be a personal pilot, whether or not it be as a flight instructor, whether or not it be as a charter pilot, and whether or not you go through a copilot type process with a commuter carrier. I think that you'll go through that and you can stay in that particular realm of pilot job, professional pilot, commercial pilot job, if you'd like, or you can continue on as I did and set your goal early to become an airline pilot. It's not just an easy, hands down thing, even though the times right now are really good for pilot hiring. So setting your target, being tenacious as anything and being determined is so very important. And making that decision early is very, very important. So I learned the four step process, and that changed everything for me as far as success goes. Changed everything, right.
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Right. Everyone has heard about the two step. What is the four step?
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Well, you know, the four step process is a little process that I learned going through a pilot ground school decades and decades ago. It's number one step. See your target or your objective clearly. Number two is plan a checklist or a set of steps to do each and every one of the items that will take you to your objective. Number three in that process. The four step process is to make sure that you do each step that you've planned out in your process that will lead you to your target or your objective. And number four is being able to analyze your progress along the way. That little mental process can work in life in so many different directions. But for me as a youngster wanting to become an airline pilot, once I had that process and started applying it to becoming an airline pilot, it helped me in every step of the way. It just was very, very effective.
[00:03:30] Speaker C: That's wonderful. So you promised to speak on how you got a job as an airline pilot. Can you go into what was required before you were offered your jobs?
[00:03:40] Speaker A: Well, you know, we talked about the forcep process.
I set my target to become an airline pilot early and I had the, the determination and the tenacity to keep beating my head against the wall until it happened. So let's just say we use the four step process. We're going to say I want to be an airline pilot. Number two is, well, I'm going to have to go through the certificates, pilot certificates, FAA certificates and ratings in order to eventually get myself qualified to be hired by a major carrier.
Those four certificates from the beginning are the private pilot certificate, the commercial pilot certificate and the airline transport pilot certificate, which is the captain certificate where you can put what they call type ratings on that. After you've went through the training and you've passed the training, you can have a type rating on there. So you go through these certificates, what are you going to need in order to be hired today? Most airlines require an airline pilot transport pilot certificate by the FAA before they'll consider you as being qualified.
Flight time, you know, a couple thousand hours is always a very good place to go. If you're military, you're probably flying heavy jets, which are correlated to heavy jets in the airline transport industry.
If you're a civilian pilot, you could be doing that through commuters. You could set up a charter company. You could do a million other ways to get your training out of the way to become hired.
[00:05:24] Speaker C: So the flight time, just curious about that 2000 hours, I mean, how many hours a week could somebody be flying, you know, to get their certificate?
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Well, when I say that there's different qualities of time, if you're flying like a military guy's flying a c five, that's about the highest quality time that you could have. If you're a civilian pilot, you're flying Cessna 150. It might take a bit more in order to be hired, more in the way of sophisticated equipment to get there. It may take more than that back in the day I was hired most of the civilian guys, which were only like two or three out of the entire 15 pilot class, they would have, you know, 3000 hours plus today. I'm not sure where that level is, but I am sure that because of the number of military pilots that are not coming out of the military, that you got an equal chance at it if you're a civilian trained pilot.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: So what about hiring today? Do they mostly hire military trained pilots or what?
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Well, we just went over that today. They look to have a blend and they look for the actual candidate to fill the spot. They want somebody that gets along well with others. That's very important. Some people don't get along with others as well as they should. They don't want to put you in the cockpit if that's the case. The training process was pretty lengthy. You know, you actually interviewed by personnel, and then they have you go past a pilot board of pilots to say, hey, would I want to fly with this guy? Would he be a good guy or not? Then they put you in a simulator to see if you can actually fly, and then they check your physical conditioning. It's a four to six month process once an airline expresses interest in you, a lengthy process.
[00:07:28] Speaker C: So what specific ways are there for a young person to take who would like to become a professional pilot?
[00:07:36] Speaker A: Well, it depends. If you want to go through military, if you want to hire on with the military and get your training through them, that's a very good step to get, you know, pathway to get to the hiring process at an airline.
You could also go to like Embry Riddle, which is an aviation type university, and there you're able to not only get your college degree, which is a requirement that all airlines require, that you have a four year college degree, then you could gain your experience going through your ratings and getting through the commercial and through the training on multi engine. And if you're going to build your flying time as a flight instructor, you get your flight instructor certificate and start training others, which you can log as pilot in command. I did a lot of that before I had the air charter company, and then I built flying time with the air charter company. It's a very good way to go. Some people, they get hired on once they get out of Embry Riddle and they fly for a connection carrier to feed the major airlines, and they build up a lot of multi engine time flying that direction and go in that pathway.
[00:08:53] Speaker C: So is the process different to become a corporate personal pilot than to becoming an airline pilot? And if so, how?
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Well, you have to be 23 years old to gain an airline transport pilot certificate. You need a minimum of 1500 hours. Then you pass a written test and then you pass an oral test, a verbal test, and you demonstrate to these parameters that are prescribed in the FAA handbook for that rating. Once you have your airline transport pilot certificate, you could technically be hired by an air carrier.
Not likely. You need a little more experience than just having an airline transport pilot certificate. But essentially you could be a corporate pilot as a co pilot. And then once you gain more experience in the corporate jet, then they type rates you, which is that rating that goes on your airline transport pilot certificate. You go through that training and then they can move you over to the left seat and flight corporate, if you wish. Corporate means that a corporation generally owns the flight operation, whereas a private person could also own a DC nine or a 727 that you fly them around the world. They have the efficiency to use that or they just have the luxury of the funds to pay for it, which is kind of an interesting way to go.
We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back. Arrimax.
[00:10:25] Speaker C: And here's Michael Hatfield, business owners.
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[00:11:12] Speaker A: Call us now. Get help with buying or selling by calling the Michael Hatfield re Max support.
[00:11:17] Speaker C: Team at 1800 857 63. That's 1800 $857.63.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: And now back to our show.
[00:11:28] Speaker C: So what if I were to invest in this career by achieving all the certificates and ratings and all of that and then not get hired by an airline? What. What might I do?
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Well, there's, there's a danger of that, Nance.
When I was talking about it the other day, I was walking with a good friend and I was talking about it the other day, you know, I don't know, but I felt a, with the airline thing and my direction and determination and tenacity, I was just in a mind state that was not going to take no for an answer.
I did interview with several airlines, which was the norm and it was typical back in the day and they said no. And then you keep beating on the door and you re interview and then you get hired. It's a numbers game and you go through this process, but it's definitely possible that you could go in and you could invest your life savings and not get hired by a major carrier. Right now is a very good time to go through and get your training. It's going to take a few years and then have a good chance of being hired by a carrier. If not, you could always go sideways and fly for a private individual that has a really nice airplane or you could go for a corporation and fly with them.
It's always a possibility for you to do because once you turn 65, you no longer can sit in the captain seat of an air carrier.
That's it. Your maximum age for part 21 airline captain is 65. You have to retire from there. But you could still fly privately under part FAA, part 91 for a private carrier or a commercial operation, a corporate operation. So you can always go back and do that too. If you haven't had enough flying and you're 65 years of age.
[00:13:29] Speaker C: So there are options taking it all the way through.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:13:33] Speaker C: So you're listening to the real estate and more show corporate and personal pilot episode. I'm your host today, Nancy Hatfield. And now let's get back to our guesthouse.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Well, I'm here. What are you going to ask me?
[00:13:46] Speaker C: Okay, so in airline flight operations, what do you do if you have to fly with a co pilot that you don't really like?
[00:13:55] Speaker A: Well, it does happen rarely, but not that often. In fact, very rare. You can, once you're in the captain's seat, you're the boss. The FAA gives you the power under the regulations to be in charge of the whole operation from the time the airplane pushes back from the gate until the time it arrives in the gate.
If you have somebody that does not get along with your crew and you find them a real problem, then you can always at the next stop ask to have them replaced. It's happened very, very rare. The airlines really tend to vet the people before they hire him very closely. But that doesn't mean somebody that isn't, you know, very nice can't get through because everyone has pressures in life and you can always find those with people.
[00:14:51] Speaker C: Life circumstances for sure can happen, but I know that they train and probably help you with the, you know, getting along with others in the cockpit and all of that. But anyways, how does one gain the experience? He or she needs to be hired as an airline pilot, I mean, just, you know, quickly on that.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah. As we touched on before military flying experience, you could do civilian training through a university like Embry Riddle. You can achieve your ratings and your certificates there. You could get one's own training for your certificates and ratings and build your flying hours flight instructing, flying charters or working for a connection carrier. As we talked before, you could start your own airline. That's what I did.
When I say airline, it was a small operation, but yet at the time, we were so blessed to have been able to fly people that are vip's, corporate individuals. We flew lifeguard flights for medical institution, carrying some of the first heart organs for Stanford. And that was really something to be quite candid about. One of the most rewarding types of flying you'll ever do is to do lifeguard flights for people.
[00:16:05] Speaker C: I bet. I bet. So what is air charter? What type of aircraft are used for that purpose?
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Well, air charter means that Nancy wants to go from a to b. She can find a part 135 FAA, part 135 air charter company in the yellow pages or on the Google or whatever, call them up and say, I want to go from a to b. And they'll say, well, what kind of airplane do you want? How many people, you know, how, when do you got to go and set up this operation? You'd show up at the airport, go through the security process, which is not as great as airlines, and then pay for it.
[00:16:55] Speaker C: Okay, so can you talk about the fuel air, you know, that is burned in an aircraft versus an automobile? Can you talk a little bit about that, please?
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Yeah. A lot of people say, oh, you're burning so much fuel and it's so expensive. Well, in reality, it's not that way. The fuel that a transport aircraft burns compared with an automobile is pretty enviable. Let's just take a 767. Boeing burns about 13,000 pounds an hour, or, you know, 2122 hundred gallons an hour and equates to about eight gallons per person per hour. So you travel 535 miles in 1 hour. Where in a car to travel 535 miles, it would take you at least 8 hours and then you'd use roughly, at least 27 gallons of fuel.
[00:17:54] Speaker C: Interesting comparison. So what are lifeguard flights and how are they done?
[00:18:01] Speaker A: Lifeguard flights are when a person's life is at risk and a patient has to be transported to a medical facility. The life is at risk. So also organs for transplant have to be transported from a donor as well. And as a pilot, there's nothing like the immense sense of helping one get from point a to point b when there's medical urgency involved.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: Thank you. So for more on lifeguard flight operations, see or hear another episode entitled Lifeguard Flights present hope with a transplant coordinator. That's lifeguard flights present hope on www.myrealtalkshow.com. that show is audio only on www.myrealtalkshow.com. for great insight on helping others in the lifeguard flights field of aviation.
Michael, what was your favorite aircraft that you flew? And tell us why.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: I happen to like all of the ones that I flew, pretty much, but one that I was very fond of, I flew it all over the world, was the Lockheed L 1011 Tristar, and the reason I liked it, I always felt so, I don't know if the word was safe, but I felt that the systems were very, very redundant. The airline I flew for could build that airplane from the ground up. They had, you know, the parts for it. The airplane had been developed overdose the course of many years to do a really fantastic job. The L 1011 500 had three engines. It carried domestically, 302 people.
Internationally. It was like 245, if I remember correctly. And it had a system for Autoland that I think that no other airplane can duplicate to this day.
[00:20:02] Speaker C: Interesting.
[00:20:02] Speaker A: Yeah. The reason was, is the airplane, when the, when it was in the autoland phase and you were close to the ground, it had a feature called direct lift control that no other airplane that I know of, transport category has, and that that lift control would actually change the altitude of the airplane while it's descending. On the instrument landing system, it would change the altitude without changing the pitch, the nose up pitch. So when it got low and close to the ground, it was all extremely, it was reliable for an airplane that was designed in the late sixties, doesn't have all of the new modern screens, and it's been retired now. But I think that was one of my favorite airplanes, if not the one of the tops.
[00:20:54] Speaker C: So what was your favorite assignment at the airline and tell us why.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: I was part of the flight standards office at the airline, and that was a very big honor. And when I say honor, they look at you and your pilot background, they look at you, how you dealt with your fellow employees and team members, and then they looked at how you flew the airplane. And, you know, how did you carry your operation? Did you have a good sense of working with people when you did it? So then they select you. There were 40 on the airplane that I was on out of almost 12,000 pilots at the time.
And I was just honored to do that job. That job consisted of once a year you would hop on an airplane with the captain and his crew, and you'd fly from a to b and give him an annual recurrent flight check. And I really love doing that. And also, you were dual seat qualified, meaning that you were qualified in the right cockpit seat as well as the captain seat. And you would fly with new first officers that are coming out of ground school training, that have never seen the airplane before. And you would fly with them and for a period of time. And then once they were safe, you would sign them off to fly with any other captain in the system. The same with captains. You would work with captains. You'd fly with them. You would be in the right seat, they'd be in the left seat. They'd never seen the airplane before. And you would work with them to develop the skills necessary to carry passengers safely. It's a very, very effective system, and it was a very great honor for me to be part of that flight standards office as an FAA designated jetpack.
[00:22:43] Speaker C: Yeah, that's awesome to hear. I know you really like that. What did you like most about the airline pilot job and why, just generally speaking?
[00:22:52] Speaker A: Well, you know, that's kind of interesting. I was talking with my friend Patucci the other day, and I was telling him, you know, in real estate, people, you have to prove your worth. You have to prove to them as an airline pilot, when you're already in uniform and you're already in the flight deck, they're going to go with you. If they want to go from point a to point b. When that door to the jetway closes, they are on board for the ride. When you choose your real estate professional, it's important that you choose someone that you can count on as well. But I like the fact that I wasn't always having to tell someone.
I went through seven years of training, and then once I got all my ratings, I was a minimally hired guy. And then I was hired into a very junior seat in an airplane. I learned there. Then I worked into first officer position and then eventually to captain.
I just liked, I don't know, the mutual respect that you would get as an airline captain.
[00:23:55] Speaker C: You're kind of like pre approved when the passengers walked into the aircraft and went, oh, okay. That's kind of how I view it.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: I like that term.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: Pre approved.
[00:24:05] Speaker C: Yes, pre approves. So how safe is it flying the skies?
[00:24:09] Speaker A: It's very, very safe. Since about 1978, the safety in the airline industry in the United States, as well as flying abroad, if it's a us carrier has increased so much to where you can put anybody on the airplane and feel very comfortable about them getting from point a to point b. And that's not saying accidents don't happen. Accidents. Systems break down. Aircrafts, they break down, too, but they're very redundant. Things do happen. But safety in US based air carrier these days, it's not to be rivaled anywhere.
[00:24:47] Speaker C: Right. You can plan on going with confidence.
So you sit up at the front. When you're an airline captain or pilot, how does the autopilot do the work?
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Well, you know, most people say, oh, you know, it just does all the work for you. You don't do anything. The airplane flies itself. Well, that's a bunch of bunk. Yes, we have drones today for military purpose and they're working on it and AI and all this stuff. You definitely, at this point in time in the world, you definitely want a human being able to sort out factors and not leave it to the complexity of a machine or a computer. There's just not enough scenarios with a database large enough to where you can just say, okay, I want to put people in there and go from there. By the way, autopilots are meant for one thing. They're meant to take the load off of a crew so that there is the ability for the crew to think and to be able to translate. Just like the us air flight 1549 on the Hudson. Those fellas had to think. They had to decipher what was actually going on. They did not know if they had both engines or lost all engines, which they had, and they could not get back even one of them. They had to sort it all out and they did a phenomenal job with that. And this happens occasionally in the airline industry. Autopilots are meant for the mundane, repetitive actions in general.
[00:26:21] Speaker C: Good to know, great tool.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: Just look and make a decision. Make a decision that you want to be an airline pilot. And if the parameters are right and you have enough tenacity and determination and motivation, it's going to work out for you. It will definitely work out at some point, just like in life, but you have to have that confidence in yourself and it has to be almost overwhelming. And also, flying airplanes through bad times like recession, you're probably going to have a furlough or two. Those things happen. They call you back in the order that you were hired.
The job is worth it. It has been amazing, amazing career for me, and I feel real grateful to have been able to participate in there. So I've learned more from learning to fly and working in the flying environment than anything I think in life has really taught me. So I'm very grateful for that experience.
[00:27:22] Speaker C: I know you loved it. So, Michael, we're at a point where I wanted to thank you. My life partner, Captain Michael Hatfield, retired former airline captain and lead FAA designated czech pilot, who has shared a story today. Thank you, Michael.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Well, thanks to my life partner for talking today. We're going to conclude this one and say thank you for listening and viewing today. Go to our YouTube channel at my real talk show. At my real talk show and like it if you like it and enjoy it if you enjoy it. But we'll be right back with our next special guest. Stay tuned.
[00:27:58] Speaker D: Please remember to go to our new YouTube handle my real talk show. That's my real talk
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