[00:00:02] Speaker A: The Michael Hatfield Re Max team presents real estate and more.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Bay Area real estate is different than in all of America. And why? What's up with homebuyers? What's on sellers minds? How is the market? And much, much more.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: Now here's your host, Michael Hatfield. Real estate and more show. Today we continue with blood red, the Hatfields and McCoys three part series. We continue to unpack the events of this interesting part of american history. We have third generation great grandson of Hatfield family patriarch William Anderson, Devil Anne's Hatfield on the show to tell us more. After the Civil War, inhabitants of Appalachia were impoverished with hardships beyond belief. If a vendetta such as the Hatfield McCoy feud broke out, there was no forgiveness, and it lasted for decades. Getting deeper into details of the blood red feud. Welcome back. The curator of the Hatfield McCoy Museum and Foundation in Saran, West Virginia, Mister Jack Hatfield.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: All this bad blood going on already, right? All these murders, these things happening.
You had devil ants. His sons, his employees, his friends all have bounties and indictments and all this stuff against them in the state of Kentucky. And then you have a Kentucky governor putting all the bounties on their heads, right?
So if you were a Hatfield specifically or affiliated with the Hatfields, you became a target. You had bounty hunters coming across state lines into the region illegally, technically at this point, trying to, you know, extradite people over into Kentucky, which was illegal.
So, you know, devil ants, his sons, you know, they were constantly on the move between, you know, his logging business and, you know, having to stay hidden. You know, he had a lot of different places that he would frequently move around to where it was hard to know where he was at any given time unless you were extremely well trusted.
But, you know, that had to be a stressful life, looking over your shoulder every second, every minute of the day. You know, is this person who's being nice to me, a bounty hunter, you know, here, to, you know, put a bullet in me. You know, it had to be extremely stressful.
So at that same time, you know, or at this event we're talking about, Devil Lance became. He had a very near death scare, being sick.
He was very sick during this time. So he saw this event as necessary and unavoidable. Unfortunately, you know, this had been going on now for 20 some years at this point, almost 30. He did not want to leave his children and his future generations in this bloody situation.
So, you know, one, the way they said it in the miniseries with Kevin Costner that they did recently was, you know, we need to cut off the head of the snake to fix the problem, and it's probably the best way I've heard it said. So. You're right.
The Logan Wildcats, aka Hatfield family, with Jim Vance, you know, and other veterans family supporters, came together, and they attacked the McCoy home place over in Kentucky on New Year's Day, 1888. Early. Early in the late night, early morning, what have you, and they set the cabin on fire trying to get them all to come out. And, you know, they were shooting as they came out of. Of course, who they wanted was Randall McCoy.
But Randall, unfortunately, got away at the time.
And I say unfortunately, because had they probably got him, the rest of the people that day would have never perished.
But he did get away with a son and daughter that day. But unfortunately, his daughter Alafair was killed that day.
His wife was brutally attacked. So, you know, at this point, he's done lost four or five children to the feud at this point during this event here. By the time this event happened. And, you know, he.
His wife Sarah, she was butted in the head with the gun by Jim Vance. And unfortunately, Sarah became incapacitated at that point and spent the rest of her life in a nursing home, I think it was at the time.
You know, the poor woman had a hard life.
But, you know, they saw this as necessary to kind of end the feud. This was his attempt to ending the feud, because for years, they tried, you know, to cool things down, tried to stop things, and it didn't work. So this is what he saw as, you know, a necessary evil, I guess, to try to end the blood feud. But it was a really bad situation, and it didn't end there.
[00:05:54] Speaker D: Yeah, the bad. Frank Phillips really was a brutal deputy sheriff, and he was appointed by Kentucky, the governor of Kentucky, to arrest members of the Hatfield family during this period of time. So he was. He was hounding people, and he was not a nice man, either. All of these people during this period of time were not really very nice. Then, in January of 1888, Jim Vance, the uncle of devilance, perished at the hand of bad Frank Phillips in a West Virginia raid. Anything to add to that, my friend?
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Yeah. So, of course, you know, Jim Vance and captain, um, were very tight. Um, remember, cap killed Asa Harmon McCoy's son, right. Um, along with Jim Vance. And then Jim Vance. And then John C. Married Asa McCoy's daughter, Nancy. Remember we talked about Nancy, and Nancy, you know, had that confrontation with Jim Vance, and then Cap killed her brother. So she left Hatfields, went back to Kentucky, and ended up, I'm not sure if she was. I think she actually married to bad Frank, I think Phelps.
So what was interesting, though, is, see, Nancy being part of the Hatfield family for a little while, Nancy McCoy knew exactly where Cap and Jim Vance went hunting.
So Nancy gave Frank Phelps the location of where they hunt, and that's how they organized that and found Cap and Jim Vance that day. Cap got away, but, of course, Jim Vance didn't perish that day.
[00:07:40] Speaker D: And then the big indictment came along, where in August of 88, it was against the eight Hatfield families. And what was the outcome of that?
The eight members of the Hatfield, they had the big indictment, and you had Ellisone or cotton top that ended up. He was hanged. They finally pursued the indictments, and it actually came to pass. And at that time, several of the other. The other seven received sentences as well.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: Yeah. So again, we have to go back to the war between the states. Kentucky governor trying to invade and take West Virginia. Right.
The fact that they were coming across the state border, the Tug river, and capturing Hatfields and Hatfield affiliates, we'll say. I mean, pulling them across the river into Kentucky was illegal.
Extradition like that did not exist at the time.
So the court case Mayhon v. Justice ended up going all the way up to the Supreme Court.
Mahan Washington, friends and employees of the Hatfields, if I'm not mistaken, it was two mayhem brothers. It was part of the seven that were captured.
And again, like you said, it ended up going up to the Supreme Court because there was no such thing as extradition.
What's interesting is when the next governor of Kentucky went into office, he ended up pardoning and releasing the McCoy or the Mahon brothers, you know, because I guess he knew it was a political battle that was being fought, you know, by the prior governor.
But yes, when the Supreme Court ruled and created extradition between the states, as we have and know today in that court case, mayhem v. Justice, it.
That's. Unfortunately, when they hung cotton top.
Cottontop was the illegitimate son of Dev Lance's brother, Ellison, who they killed during the election day event. They stabbed him 27 times, if you remember. This was his son.
He was not all there, unfortunately.
And he called him cotton top. I believe he was Albano, or at least had, you know, yellow hair, clearly, or white hair, sorry.
But he was not all there.
And they actually did get a confession from him. You know, I killed him McCoy. I killed him McCoy, possibly. My theory is he was trying to make the family proud, you know, that he got him a boy.
But it was over. The killing at the cabin that he had killed Ala fair.
And, you know, there were so many people shooting and firing that night on that cabin. It's hard to tell whose bullet actually hit Alafair.
But Ellison Cottontop paid the price for it.
You know, there was.
And unfortunately, the Supreme Court ruled he was hung and he was buried in an unmarked grave over in Pikeville. And then devil Lance's brother, the judge, turned himself in, who was part of that as well, and he died in prison a year later of natural causes.
So they actually also put him in an unmarked grave. So, unfortunately, those two don't even have a headstone or a grave site to be remembered by today. And they were key people in the feud.
[00:11:48] Speaker D: So we start out, just to recap all of this. We start out, where did this all come from? It came from animosities that resulted fighting together during the civil war and one member leaving early and going home and the other one continuing to fight, getting thrown in a military prison. I came back. Hardship conditions were just overwhelming. It was difficult to find food, difficult to earn a living. You had the input of whiskey from moonshine.
You had all of these conditions, and one thing just continually led to another, and this exploded and lasted some 30 years or more.
No one was right. No one was. Everyone was wrong. It was just one of those times in history. And we look back on it and we say, well, you can't erase history. It's there. We like to just be able to think about it and reflect and think about how we can avoid something like this in the future. So now and in later years, over the years, Jack, do you ever recall your family member saying, if there's a possibility of a McCoy being around, don't say that you're Hatfield. Did anybody ever say that to you?
[00:13:10] Speaker C: No, quite the opposite.
The Hatfield family are very proud people.
They're not proud of the feud and the events that took place. By no means.
In fact, the family tried to bury it and forget about it.
They are not proud of the feud. They are not proud of the murders and the killing that happened, and they didn't talk about it through the generations. And that's how, unfortunately, there's so many theories out there today is that history that was not legally documented has not been really passed down so much. We only have one book, I'd say two books that, in my opinion, are even semi accurate with what happened during the feud.
But, you know, again, if it wasn't recorded in a legal court document, those stories weren't told and passed down.
But I was we were never told to back down from a McCoy or hide away from him for sure.
[00:14:18] Speaker D: Out on the other coast it was like maybe you shouldn't tell people that your last name is Hatfield. You never know if that animosity is carried on. But this was a number of years ago and when I grew up.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: We're going to take a short break.
[00:14:33] Speaker D: We'll be right back.
[00:14:35] Speaker E: And here's Michael Hatfield.
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[00:15:24] Speaker F: Get help with buying or selling by calling the Michael Hatfield re max support team at 1800 857 63. That's 1800 857 63.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: And now back to our show.
[00:15:38] Speaker D: And is it true that there was a well in front of the Hatfield's home that not only provided water but it also provided water for the private still that they had in back?
[00:15:50] Speaker C: Yeah, it's still here today.
I tried to build a new facade for it because it's a well. So it's a hole in the ground. Right. So during the years of this property has an even scathier future after Debbie lanes lived on it.
But it was unfortunately the original parts around the well were destroyed. But I was able to recreate, you know, the facade to the top of the well.
But yeah, it's over 100ft deep and the water comes out of there is amazingly clean and crystal clear.
The. What was interesting was that I also found where the moonshining was done on the property. So one thing we've been doing, you know, you can check our YouTube channel out. We do a lot of digging here on the property and we have found different artifacts and things in certain places that have led us to understand more how they operated and lived here on the property. During that day, we thought on the hillside behind the house, we thought that that was a cellar that went underground. And come to find out it was actually the moonshining spot.
Finding it was kind of behind the brush and oddly enough there are three paw paw trees right there.
It's. Yeah, it's kind of odd but there are three paw paw trees there, the only ones on the property.
But we started finding, you know, a lot of pieces of the blue glass ball canning jars and the canning jar lids and the ceramic seal in them. So we thought it was the cellar, the root cellar. And then we started digging down with the backhoe trying to find the door and entry. And there was no cellar, but it was very clear. They put a retaining wall there that's made out of the blocks of the moat around the property he created. And we found knives where they were whittling, you know, and we found coal script and 1800 coins.
So clearly, you know, cannon jars and money in a hidden location behind brush that's just oddly flat on the side of the mountain.
It's pretty clear what was going on at that spot.
And it's not far from the well, so it definitely was.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:18:33] Speaker D: Well, listen, folks, Jack, he's a curator of the Hatfield McCoy Museum in Sara Ann, Virginia. Also, he's the guy in charge of the foundation of the Hatfield and McCoy foundation. They've done a lot with the homeland of devil ants. They built a bridge back there that it's was fallen down, it was 130 years old. That would take you to the actual home of devil ants. They've done so much back there. So if you've, you have an interest in the actual Hatfield McCoy feud and, and this time in history, you know, look up online and that's the Hatfield mccoyfoundation.org. and you can find out so much about the history of Appalachia and the Hatfield McCoy feud back in that period of time. But I just feel it's just really amazing. I just think about it a lot and think about how things can get out of control and how they did back in those particular days.
We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.
[00:19:43] Speaker F: Welcome to the real estate minute with re max expertise, Michael Hatfield. Michael, what traits should we look for in selecting an agent?
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[00:20:10] Speaker F: What can you do as a plus for clients?
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Your agent is your eyes and your ears, one who works behind the scenes on your behalf, a great attitude, working well with others and keeping clients priorities. Number one is a given for us.
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[00:20:40] Speaker E: Well, we were in the market to buy a house in Pleasanton for a very long time. So we saw this beautiful house. We walk in, we see Michael and Nancy. We just absolutely love this house. Michael brought in a wealth of knowledge and experience to the whole home buying process. He was very professional. And both Michael and Nancy went way above and beyond to help us and to help us achieve the house of our dreams.
[00:21:05] Speaker D: Now back to our show.
But then recently, like in 2003, there was an official peace treaty, was there not? How did that work?
[00:21:16] Speaker C: Yeah, so Ron McCoy and Bo McCoy, they are direct descendants of Randall McCoy. They threw a Hatfield McCoy reunion festival in Kentucky, in Pike County, Kentucky, Pikeville. And it was a huge event. I think they had. Ron told me around five or 10,000 people attend.
And this story comes from Ron directly.
Ron said that him and Beau wanted to give out an award they called the real McCoy award. And they thought, how funny would they be if they found a hat bill to give it to? So they found a guy by the name of Rio Hatfield.
Rio, if I'm not mistaken. I can't remember his lineage. I think he comes down from Wal Hatfield, but Rio is a business owner in Virginia, in Charlottesville area, and he.
I think it was maybe 911. I can't remember the actual event, but I think it was 911. He had sent truckloads. He owns or owned at the time, a logistics company. So he sent down truckloads of supplies to this needed event area. I think it was probably 911 because, you know, the peace treaty was 2003, so very close. I think it was maybe for 911. I can't remember what Riho told me, but they had sent down truckloads of supplies to help people. And so they thought that he was someone great and deserving of that real McCoy award. So they gave him the real McCoy award during the. During the festival and all that.
And then Rio said, you know, I think we need to take this a step further than just, you know, the Real McCoy Award. He was like, I think we need to show the nation after 911, you know, try to bring the nation together, you know, because it was divided a lot back then as well, like today.
So they decided to showcase to the world that if the two most notorious killing families in all of history can get along, so can you. So they decided to do a truce, as they call it. I call it peace treaty for short, but a truce signing in 2003, as an official end to the feud, there were several handshakes and meetings before of, you know, descendants of both families. Devil, answered Randall, but nothing that was ever, like, recorded on paper and agreed to and signed and whatnot. So this was technically the official, I guess we'll say, ending to everything. But, you know, I've even had people come in here visiting the property in the museum. You know, I didn't sign no peace treaty.
So there's still animosities.
[00:24:25] Speaker D: Yes, there.
[00:24:26] Speaker C: And at some level, the feud still goes on a little bit today, you know, just in a different way, you know, business and, you know, who uses exposure to make us look like ignorant hillbillies and who, you know, uses the name and tries to preserve it and, you know, represent the family in a bright light.
You know, we've sold a lot of newspapers. I mean, there's probably 60 books, I think four or five movies, mini series.
I can't tell you how many magazines over the hundreds last hundred years that we've been featured in. I mean, I just keep finding them for the, you know, for the museum, for display.
You know, we've sold a lot of media for the last hundred and some years, and a lot of it was done in a bad light. So, you know, to the foundation's members, you know, it's very important that any media that we work with, you know, we're shown in the right light. So some of that hostility today is over, you know, who uses the name for know, good and bad, I guess we'll say, or borderline. But yeah, that was the official peace treaty and it was signed on Good Morning America and of course, with how many millions of viewers, it was featured in Time magazine, all kinds of things around the world.
But, you know, this feud impacted not just the United States legal system that we know today, but, you know, the world. We have extradition now with other countries and not to mention beyond the states, but, you know, with even other countries. So it's just crazy to think about how far of a reach dispute has had. You know, it's insane.
[00:26:24] Speaker D: Unbelievable. Now we're just getting really scotch on time. The question that I have that everybody is interested in is you've done something really cool, Jack. You've written a book called eaten with the Hatfields. That's e a t, eaten with the Hatfield. There you go. And it's available on the website at hatfieldmcchoi foundation.org. hatfieldmccoifoundation.org. And you can get on there. You can purchase the book. You can also set up tours of the actual area back there. Jack is in charge of it and does a wonderful, wonderful job there in Sara Ann, West Virginia. We certainly have appreciated so much of the time today. Are there any words that you would like to leave the audience with?
[00:27:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, you know, first off, I have a great team that helps me here run everything. I'm kind of the face. I can't take credit for it all.
But, you know, my aunt Judy has helped tremendously and is a huge part of the foundation. She's the founder and purchased the property back for the family for the first time in 100 years, you know. But that being said, you know, there's a lot to be learned from this history lesson.
You know, our neighbors and our friends, just because they have a different political view, are not your enemy. They are not the enemy. We have real enemies out there, and it is not your neighbor, you know? So, you know, learn from this bloody incident, you know, and from the families and, you know, try to, you know, be nice to your neighbor, you know, and, you know, everybody, the great thing about America is we can all have different views and, and theories and I and whatnot in this country, we're allowed those freedoms. So just remember that, you know, and try to show some unity and come together like the rest of us have. We can do it. You can, too.
[00:28:30] Speaker D: There you go. We've so very much enjoyed having you on the show. Jack Hatfield, you are a treasure of historical knowledge and a nice guy to boot. Thank you so much for being on the show, Jack. Appreciate it.
You've been listening to the real estate and more show at my real talk show. At my real talk show. Help us by going to that YouTube channel and touching the subscribe button if you have the time. So we will be back shortly with our next special guest. Stay tuned.
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